Comments on: My Book

By: Gospel Advocate, November 2009, part 1 « The Blog Prophet

Gospel Advocate, November 2009, part 1 « The Blog Prophet — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:21:44 +0000

[...] reading John Mark Hicks and Bobby Valentine’s great book on Lipscomb and Harding, or even Todd Deaver’s works. Although, it is highly unlikely any of those brothers would be published in the [...]

By: Roger L

Roger L — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:26:36 +0000

Just because we have failed in practicing consistency fellowship does not mean we should not strive for it. Neither does it mean there is no standard for understanding it. There is a standard, the Bible. All the early churches had problems, and that cannot be denied; however the Holy Spirit gave instructions on how to handle those problems and ultimately to mark and withdraw from those who “cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned.” (Rom 16:17). What ‘doctrine”? There was not one doctrine in Rome and another in Ephesus, etc. All were to continue in “the apostles docrtine” (Acts 2: 42) as the Jerusalem church did in the beginning. That doctrine had is basis in the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ and guidance by the Holy Spirit (John 14:25-26; 15:26-27; 16;13-15; 17:20-21; I Cor. 14:37. etc) The “doctrine of Christ” (II Jn. 9) is more than objective, it is also subjective in that what was believed about Christ affected how they “walked in truth” (v4). The doctrine of Christ includes all about Him and all that He taught. Anything that apostles taught was the doctrine of Christ. It came from God for the Christian faith. Reading some ramblings here, one could distinctly get the idea that there is no such thing as clear truth, error, or false teachers. I have not read Todd’s book, but I do agree that there must be consistency. But we must be very, very careful not to leave the door open to any and ever thing that we do not agree on with a goal to agree to disagree. When Jesus made it plain that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the kingdom of heaven, He meant exactly that and excluded all others. We need to spend out time understanding the will of the Father and making our best efforts to the doing of it and less time philosophizing on unity in failing to do it. Unity is based on following the will of God, not failing to do it!
“Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. (John 17:17-21)
Roger

By: What I believe about grace, works, and salvation « Planned Spontaneity

What I believe about grace, works, and salvation « Planned Spontaneity — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:59:40 +0000

[...] Deaver has written a book called Facing Our Failure chronicling the abysmal failure that the “conservative” Churches of Christ to come to [...]

By: Ken Sublett

Ken Sublett — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:16:04 +0000

Todd, I understand why you don’t want the Biblical view.

Too bad that people make themselves visible and audible but will not tolerate any questioning. I have noticed that when preachers get certified and elders get installed:-) they no longer want to be challenged.

You are terribly wrong and I would not expect one to know too much from the university level.

Good luck, you will truly need it

By: Instrumental Music: Missing More Than Music by Danny Corbitt, Introduction « One In Jesus.info

Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:02:43 +0000

[...] as Todd Deaver’s Facing Our Failure destroys one of the linchpins of conservative theology — their utterly absent theology of [...]

By: Morris G Bowers

Morris G Bowers — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 23:10:23 +0000

Hello Everyone,

It is my understanding of the responses to my mention of instrumental music in in our worship to God; that you people do not understand a very fundemental issue of “Authority.”

God gave us what He wants us to know. What He hasn’t told us is none of our concern. We surely can not improve on His “revealed word.”

thanks,
Morris Bowers

By: Brian H.

Brian H. — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 06:18:15 +0000

Brother Bowers,

Research on early church worship will probably show you that the early Christian church took its worship style from the Jewish synagogue where there were no use of instruments. That is why the early church did not use instruments. Not because Ephesians said not to use them. The early churches were not using instruments long before any writings in the Bible were used to make that argument.

I enjoyed reading your original post on instruments but couldn’t finish it all because I’m falling asleep. It’s very late and I’ve got to get to bed.

Yours in Christ,
Brian

By: a keith

a keith — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:30:06 +0000

Morris
I understand your logic behind the history debate (of ‘no instrumental music’ in the early church) — many people use that and it’s easy to get caught up in history and tradition. That is our human weakness. . But if you choose to use that logic, please be consistent. i believe this is where many conservative c o c are failing.
I went through a stage where i was very interested in the early church teacher and read and studied many of the books. Did you notice, as I did, that ALL of them were against war (since our Lord disarmed us and we are now soldiers of HIM and HIM ONLY), they were against violence (since our God hates violence- they would not even step foot in the roman stadiums where violent games were played- do you watch boxing matches, football, or even maybe many of the violent show on t.v.?? Christ called us to be peacemakers and love peace, love, justice and mercy), they were against secular holidays (they considered birthdays pagan- do you?) they were against materialism (they didn’t just preach it, they lived it– and today many christians spend more time decorating their homes than they do helping others) they taught their women to be quiet workers of the home and women did not wear makeup and jewels. they got together DAILY to build one another up so satan’s works would be destroyed, they gladly took in orphans and raised them (today- are all christians willing to make this sacrafice for GOD–since Christ himself said TRUE RELIGION to the Father is to care for the orphans and widows) and i could go on and on. They didn’t just do these things because they felt like it. They taught other Christians to follow and LIVE them. These are things that the conservative c o c now allow (war, violence, makeup ect.) or dismiss (the orphans, daily meetings, selling our possesions to give to the poor ect) . Why?
Why do you condemn instrumental music and use the reason of ‘history’ but you don’t stick strictly to the history of the early christians? why are some changes ok, but not others? I think sometimes we forget that worship for a christian is not just when you clock in to your church buildings…. worship is a way of life. it’s an on going sacrifice to our Father. In ALL we do- In ALL we think. In ALL we feel– WORSHIP OUR CREATOR. Can a mute person worship and praise God with their heart, even though they can’t sing? Isn’t the heart different than the mouth? of course, singing and making melody in the heart is truely FEELING and MEANING the words in your inner being that your mouth is singing.
One last question for you- if worshiping the creator while playing an instrument is a SIN, then shouldn’t instruments be considered corrupt, vain items? Why would God give some people talents that they could not use in service to Him? Since it’s taught ‘In ALL things, Glorify your Father in Heaven’.

David was given this natural talent by God, this is why Saul got him to come play the harp for him when he was tormented in his spirit. And David, a man after God’s own heart, felt the need to worship his Father with his talent. I don’t understand how this can be a SIN against God? Please read Matt. 7 and make sure your not doing what the pharisees did. I can hear Jesus now asking, “don’t you remember how David praised God?”
where there is no law, there is no sin. Sin isn’t a guessing game, Jesus made it very clear what was a SIN against his Father. Let’s stick to HIS list, and not add to it.
also,
Lets love each other through this disagreement… if not to keep our hearts pure, then because that is what our Lord asked of us.
A. Keith

By: Jackson Carter

Jackson Carter — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:05:30 +0000

Just ordered a copy of your book, and I can’t wait to read it. You must be commended for your courage.

By: Wayne McDaniel

Wayne McDaniel — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:42:36 +0000

Todd, Have just now found and read these blog entries about your book, which I have not read. In reading brother Bowers lengthy reply I noticed that he
had a paragraph with the sub-heading: A little history lesson. Near the beginning of that paragraph he made reference to the past when instruments were introduced in The Sunday School, but not “in the worship”. I am not the first to point out that this distinction lacks any basis in the scriptures at all.
The fact that Paul DIALOGUED with those at Troas
is a part of the “pattern” that is regularly ignored -
Acts 20:7 & 9. Acapella singing from the heart is wonderful, but it was never intended to be a point of distinguishing ourselves from others who need the blood of Jesus to forgive their sins as much as we do.